Long-Term Quality - BMW: The Ultimate Payment Machine

"Steven Lang" (StevenLang) 02/06/2015 at 17:45 • Filed to: None

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"What a ripoff!" — I said to my soon to be former boss. He had taken his then near-new 1996 BMW 325i convertible to the dealership for maintenance. The cost back in 1997? Over $500, which was more than what I recently paid for an 11 year old Camry I got from an impound lot.

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Thankfully the guy could take a joke. At least until he fired me. Like my once reliable weekly paycheck, that beautiful red BMW convertible and that spiteful yuppie who owned it are long gone, and therein lies the bigger tale of the BMW brand over the last 20 years.

The good news about buying most BMW models (not all) is that !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . For all the hemming and hawing about German cars falling apart like a pile of cards after the 8 to 10 year mark, BMW actually ranges when it comes to long-term reliability from well above to... well....

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! from all over the country, and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! that have been inspected and appraised by mechanics and professional car buyers, we're finding that the more popular and less expensive models are holding their own — at least on the surface.

If you click on the bar graph above, you will find that there appears to be a truism for the long-term quality of the average BMW.

The fewer the electronic doo-dads for a BMW, the better the long-term quality.

For example, a lot of folks at Jalopnik love to say, "The answer for everything is a Miata!" I happen to own a 2003 model at the moment so I definitely don't mind echoing that choir of content

However, two alternative answers may be the BMW Z3 and Z4...

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BMW Z4:

Both Zs compare favorably to the Miata which leads the pack for !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . In the older used car market (8 years and older), a Z will go for about $2000 more than a comparable Miata. But at the times of year where convertible sales aren't so hot such as October thru February, this margin shrinks dramatically.

Another surprise comes in the form of the BMW 3-Series.

If you look at the black lines which show the average level of powertrain issues for each model year versus the BMW average in pink, you'll find that the 3-Series has been consistently at or below the industry average defect mark for most of it's recent history.

This is quite an achievement given that in North America alone BMW has offered a mind-boggling array of engine, transmission and powertrain combinations for the 3-series.

However there is something that lurks far deeper beyond that surface of powertrain quality, and that is cost. Lots of maintenance and repair costs.

When you buy a BMW, any BMW, you are pretty much enlisting a willingness to invest in the vehicle. Long story short, BMW's have a love for premium parts and premium care. Your tires? Don't even think about buying the cheapies. Maintenance? While any brand will bite you for neglect, a BMW will turn you upside down, spit in your face, and then piledrive you right into your crippled savings account.

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! of what frequently goes wrong on the E36 generation of the 3-Series which stretches from 1991 to 1998. The E46 has a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , and the E90 has the misfortune of offering !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

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The little issues are usually the big issues on older BMWs so long as you do everything else to the letter. Parts that were made with plastic instead of metal. Sunroofs that aren't water tight. Fuel pumps. Electrical issues for the wipers, locks, turn signals and other power features.

A lot of the quality issues with a BMW 3-Series as it ages are strangely similar to what you will find on late 90's and Y2K era GM models. Except with the BMW, if you don't wrench it yourself, or have it subject to a recall, you will pay through the nose and then some.

That's what gets a lot of former owners off the BMW Roundel and onto less costly vehicles. A BMW may be the ultimate driving machine when it's new. But when they become older, one bad owner or a series of them along with the wrong powertrain can turn them into the ultimate payment machines. For example, the 5-Series has average long-term quality for the most part. But there are a few serious flashes of concern within the higher end of the model range. Specifically the BMW 550 and certain years of the BMW 540.

The issues that come with a BMW that is equipped with the larger engines are, well, just click on the graph and see what models wind up below the average mark. Mind you, I'm not saying that a BMW V8 is going to be less reliable for you than a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! or a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Except maybe if you buy the wrong BMW 7-Series.

The 7-Series is pretty much BMW's one weak hand in the marketplace. These models typically get clocked with a 40% decline in value after the first year, and then it will eventually become a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! for cheap hellish wheels by the time it reaches the 11 year old average age for an American owned vehicle.

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I have seen 7-Series models have anniversaries at the dealer auctions. In otherwords, they have been stuck in what we call "wholesale heaven" for over a year with no buyer in site of what the seller needs to get out from under it.

I have a friend who has worked as a BMW mechanic at a dealership in San Francisco who has seen 7-Series go into limp mode because the prior owner had an aftermarket stereo system installed that blew out a relay, which lead to another issue, and onward until the transmission was told that something dire was wrong.

Why do I offer these anecdotal examples? Because it appears from the data we have collected that a used Audi A8 or Mercedes S-Class will offer the used car buyer a far better long-term return for the money. Whether it's !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , or repair costs that run well into the four figures, a 7-Series is really only for those with a serious DIY orientation and a desire to have a used car that is akin to a 7 to 10 year old rolling computer on wheels.

Then again, an older BMW 3-Series trumps an !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! in much the way as NATO offers more military firepower than the the island of Cyprus. Then again, the powertrain isn't everything. Which is why I am emphasizing the fact that as used cars, all of these German cars require a willingness to invest in them.

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You want a premium car? It will require a premium investment for that premium return. A BMW is better than many, but make sure you keep a keen eye for the little problems before they get big. Because once a BMW gets too big, all hell breaks loose.

The Long-Term Quality Index is a collaborative project between !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , designed to give the average car buyer a picture of what the long-term reliability of different makes and models are based on real-world used vehicle data. Our goal is to provide used car buyers accurate reliability information that will be available for free, forever. For right now, here's a compilation of how !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Want to look at other brands and market segments? Feel free to !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . By the end of 2015, we will have nearly a million data samples to help consumers find those used cars that are worth keeping.

E92M3 > Steven Lang 02/06/2015 at 18:34

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There's a lot of stupid things that go wrong with BMW's that shouldn't. For example: o-rings (or anything rubber), radiators, AC evaporators, Alternators, rod bearings. Things that won't happen on any japanese car before 200k miles will fail before 50k miles. A lot of it comes down to material failure. Vanos bolts that are too soft and sheer off, plastic parts cracking or breaking. Materials that everyone else has figured out already, and shouldn't fail. Why is Honda radiator plastic so superior to BMW's? Why do their valve cover gaskets last 4 times as long? After a 100 years they should have something as simple as rod bearings figured out. That's one item that shouldn't be recalled, ever IMO. Want to change their makeup and alloy content? Fine but test the hell out of it before putting into production.

WhiskeyGolf > Steven Lang 02/06/2015 at 18:42

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Interesting info. I know reliability stats are all about anecdotes, so here's mine: my dad bought a new 2009 328i and has since put 250,000 km on it. He doesn't any maintenance beyond what the dealership suggests (oil changes regularly, etc) and he didn't need new brakes until very recently (expensive, but not, considering cost per KM). Once again proving that cars like to be driven!

VonBelmont > Steven Lang 02/06/2015 at 18:43

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My dad was a BMW guy ever since the e30 up to now. He's had other cars like Hondas, Mercedes, and Acura, but he always returns to BMW. They're just wonderful cars. Currently he's got an Accord because he's done with "dealership robbery" and same rather shoddy QC (that 540 was just a box of problems from day one), but he's probably gonna switch back to a 3/5 series in the near future.

Our e38 lasted a good 15 years, and that RCR is literally right on the money. No matter what you bought it for (ours was bought new), it will always be a $70k+ car in maintainence costs. But it was divine, if less fun than a 3 series. Just a serene cruise missile.

phenotyp > E92M3 02/06/2015 at 18:48

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Dead-on summary. My '07 550 turned out to be a total basket case. Ended up replacing every piece of rubber and plastic in the engine and engine bay, and then some. And sensor failures. And belts. On a 6-year-old car that was otherwise pristine, with fewer than 90K miles.

VonBelmont > WhiskeyGolf 02/06/2015 at 18:49

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It could also be that your dealers charge less than they do in the US, or you guys keep the good ones ;)

Vzwolf > Steven Lang 02/06/2015 at 18:55

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Nice article. I remember when I was looking at Z4 M's with the S54 engine from the E46 M3 and read you needed to get valves adjusted, I immediately thought: "I'm not trusting the previous owner did that" and wrote the car off.

Steven Lang > VonBelmont 02/06/2015 at 18:56

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I would love to make the right BMW model a road warrior. Your Dad is doing the right thing, and I'm glad he right car for the journey.

Steven Lang > Vzwolf 02/06/2015 at 18:59

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Due diligence on a BMW is an absolute must.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Steven Lang 02/06/2015 at 19:00

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I have to admit the 167,000 mile E36 M3 I just bought has me a bit concerned in the reliability department. But, going off the experiences of family and friends who have owned BMWs without anything out of the ordinary happening (even on the E36 with 170,000 miles), I'm not totally freaking out.

Steven Lang > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/06/2015 at 19:04

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You shouldn't. Just follow the dealer recs and take an occasional trip to the forums.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Steven Lang 02/06/2015 at 19:06

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The mechanicals seemed like they've been extremely well taken care of, it's just the body that was abused and riced out...

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Steven Lang 02/06/2015 at 19:10

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I took the Z4 as the Miata alternative, and I haven't been disappointed.

Mine is a 2007 model, so N52 Valvetronic motor (which means that I don't have the pure necessity of watching the cooling system like a hawk as you have to do on M54 and M52tu engines), and the most amazing option on a BMW convertible.

A manual top. On a BMW!

Heck, the car only has the Sport Pack and M Sport Suspension. Everything else is left off. No power top, no power seats, no silly gadgetry to go wrong all the time.

It's the way to go, and no I'm not selling mine any time soon.

WhiskeyGolf > VonBelmont 02/06/2015 at 19:13

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Many of the dealerships I deal with regularly have been very good, so maybe you're right!

Steven Lang > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 02/06/2015 at 19:39

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I love those vehicles. Great choice!

JasonStern911 > Steven Lang 02/06/2015 at 22:57

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Not surprising - the quality rating goes up with the predominantly convertible models (Z3/Z4) that tend to be driven less...

Not hating on BMW. If I wasn't a Porsche guy - I'd probably be a BMW guy.

Jimmy Tango > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 02:22

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they were meant to be ultimate leased machine....people just didn't get the memo

Tipo Stradale Fever > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 12:16

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It's not only in terms of quality. You should check out used M3´s. They depreciate like nothing else. You can buy a 2010 M3 for just over 29K. A fully loaded 2009 M3 can be bought for 25K. That's crazy...

http://www.cars.com/for-sale/searc…

Imagine if you bought one new for around 80K only to sell it (4 years later) for under half the price.

chriswhotakesphotos > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 12:19

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Maintenance and repair costs, and as is the case with many older BMWs, "unfortunate aftermarket wheel costs."

AntiLag > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 12:23

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I once got a 2012 318i rental car with about 160 miles on the odometer. Not 160,000 miles, but 160 miles total. Took it for a little hooning in malibu, and within an hour, the windshield wiper system failed. I got an alert on the dash telling me to take it to the dealer. "Fuck it" I thought, 'it never rains in malibu'... and then, surely enough, it rained. So I had to drive it through the canyon in the dark with no wipers, but at least the headlights worked. BMW Electronics are unbelievably crap.

HelloByeAMG > Tipo Stradale Fever 02/07/2015 at 12:25

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Yeah, it´s pretty sweet for people (like me) who buy them second hand when they´ve hit rock bottom.

3304HL > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 12:25

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A good friend of mine has had an X3 for all of seven months and has already pretty much had it with running costs and down time. It's had a few niggly issues with electrics which generally mean he is without his car for at least 3 days. He's now looking to replace it with something that speaks a bit less of status...

BrightRodger > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/07/2015 at 12:27

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I've owne a few BMWs new and old and after my last e46 330ci model had a bunch of nonsense problems related to modern amenities (xenon, climate control, speed sensitive steering) I went old school and went back to an e36 m3. Now I've got two. One race car, 1 street car and I have to say. They aren't wuite honda reliable, but they are pretty darn good, and to fix them doesn't cost more than any other car. My mechanic is $100/hour just like my mechanic for my other more boring cars. Parts aren't that bad either IMO.

My impression is that the s50b30usa/s52/s50b32 line of motors is probably the best motor bimmer has built as it relates to reliability and being able to bang off the limiter time and time again my race car has a lot of days on the engine and it just keeps on ticking.

Patrick Frawley > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 12:27

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Yay for E36s. Tragedy that so many are abused and neglected, though, but I guess that goes with the low market valuation of most of them now.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/07/2015 at 12:27

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Fortunately, E36's are really easy to work on

SoManyBlueCars > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 12:29

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I just do everything myself on both my 328 and M3.

astrograph1 > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 12:29

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I suppose my brother's 328i was on the other side of the spectrum. He bought a certified 2009 328i in 2011 that had 28k miles. Around 57k miles... the back driver side window just stopped working... thankful for the warranty as it would've cost him $1800 to replace a motor. Fast forward to late 2013 and the car finally went over the 100k miles which meant it was out of warranty.

He was able to drive the car for another 5600 miles before the car somehow had oil leaks in 3-4 areas... with bmw wanting almost $7k to fix it. So he took it straight to a toyota dealership and traded it in for a new Rav 4.

Built BMW Tough > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 12:30

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Oh, it's that glorious Hartge V10 E90...

Quade > E92M3 02/07/2015 at 12:32

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I've had my share of BMW's apart including complete disassembly and re-assembly of an E36 M3. It's pretty clear BWM cuts corners on supplier quality. The engines are for the most part bullet proof as in not stranding you. They aren't perfect. The transmissions less so but, the rest of the cars is simply poorly constructed. E36/E46 sheet metal tearing issues for example. The quality of the rubber in the suspension. In the engine compartment, just doesn't compare to Japanese quality. If BMW farmed out manufacture to Honda or Toyota, you'd get a reliable BMW. It's not really the design that's flawed. It's the quality of the components. That's why Japanese cars are more reliable. Because their components are simply made better.

David Jatt > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 12:33

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well shit. I've just signed for my first BMW today. Used 130i.

I'm paying for a 2 year comprehensive warranty though....

Built BMW Tough > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 12:33

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As a prior owner of an E30, an E39, and current E66 owner, I wholeheartedly concur.

JR1 > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 12:34

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I throughly enjoy these articles. I will also be using this site as a resource when I one day go buy a new (used) car. I would like to have a fun German car and the research you do makes it easier for the buyer to find one that perhaps fits his/her maintenance budget. Thanks!

Touringguy > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 12:37

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I've owned both E36 Ms and an E39 touring. All had manuals and all were bullet proof. Sure, little things would go up now and then but I was never left stranded and all had over 200k on the clock.

David Jatt > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/07/2015 at 12:38

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Wow. Brave man. Just bought a BM with 52k and I'm slightly nervous about the first bill...

DerW220 > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 12:40

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This is why I laugh when someone tells me my "terrible" 220 is worse than any BMW. I could own 4 of these or 4 A8s for the price of one E65. I've seen parts lists for both, and the people who defend a modern 7-series are drinking some serious amounts of Bavarian Kool-Aid.

Draw007 > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 12:42

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Z4's are junk. Rattles galore, harsh suspension (and I prefer sport suspensions), and a horrible automatic transmission (who green lighted the shift points?).

Rob > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 12:45

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It's well known that BMWs are more reliable than VW or MBZ products.

That being said it's also a well known fact that BMW stands for "Broke My Wallet." Because the litany of ridiculous things that go wrong with them quickly add up to a reasonable down payment on a house over the span of a few years.

tl;dr buy Japanese if you want to be safe or buy American if you don't mind dealer-loaners from time-to-time.

LJ909 > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 12:46

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My mom has an 07 E90 with over 108 thousand on the clock and she has had no issues. The car has been stellar and she commutes 78 miles a day. As for the 7 series I have heard a lot of issues with the last gen. But are you telling me the last gen Audi A8 (from 2004-11?) Is more reliable than a last gen 7?

Godman > JasonStern911 02/07/2015 at 12:47

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Wheres's the 325?

Rob > E92M3 02/07/2015 at 12:48

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THIS.

This is exactly true of BMWs. They're clearly, obviously engineered to provide maximum profit margin not reliability.

Permadi > WhiskeyGolf 02/07/2015 at 12:53

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250,000 km in 5 years and just first set of brakes means your dad mostly do highways only and that is good for the car in general.

Ahad > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 12:54

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My Dad bought a '08 523i brand new, and so far all hes had is replace the rubbers on the windows, a radiator failure (covered by dealer), and change over the ignition coil pack. I know it sounds like alot, but its held up beautifully, with just standard servicing done by dealer on a regular basis. and its driven 105k miles

Tom Hegedosh > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 12:57

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I did it backwards. Bought a z4m 4 years ago, and threw a supercharger kit on it. At 87k miles now. Goooodbyeeee reliability. Hahhahaha. Oh wait. :(

TwoTrunkSteve > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 12:57

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After loving our '02 x5, it was replaced with an '11 X5. It's currently in the shop for the 16th time for warranty, 22nd if you count maintenance trips too. With just over 50k miles, This SAV has made the trip twice on a flatbed. While I love this car when it's on its game, it is a difficult and expensive car to buy and own. Add in your personal time to pick-up and drop off, this car requires a huge personal time commitment too. I'm thinking Toyota looks awfully good once the warranty is over and the pain of spending this much time and money is done. It's an amazing car, but the juice is not worth the squeeze.

WoodyoftheWorld > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 13:03

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Goes to prove my point all along. You can afford a BMW while its under its maintenance and warranty umbrella but outside of that you drive an extremely costly time bomb.

Having experienced it myself it is truly shocking at the cost of ownership.

Kyle D. > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 13:06

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If you're looking to buy a car that's had some rough years and you accept that you need to pay a lot into it on a regular basis, maybe BMW, Audi, or Mercedes isn't the answer. A Jag could come with some nightmares, but it also comes with so much character.

Kyle Quilliam > E92M3 02/07/2015 at 13:10

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On my 07 335xi with 60k miles I had 2 fuel pumps, a set of injectors, some VANOS crap and various cooling parts in the first and last year of ownership. I lost my ass getting rid of it and bought a new Regal GS.

RelentlessSlacker > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 13:16

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I'm really liking these long-term quality summaries.

On the surface then, BMW sounds a lot like VW (except with A- transmissions instead of B-). Stout drivetrains, the more basic your car is outfitted the better your experience is going to be, and they don't take kindly to owners who aren't consistent and proactive maintainers.

Anecdote: close family friend had a 2001 X5 3.0i and commuted from Santa Cruz to San Francisco (aka, a long damn way). In about 7 years she racked up 200,000 miles, bought a new Murano, then gave the X5 to her daughter. Daughter drove it years more. Car went to about 280,000 miles and 12 years before they sold it without any real problems. Just maintained by the BMW service intervals.

ZeGerman > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 13:16

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The list of concerns with the E36 is actually quite small when you get down to it. Sure, the cooling system should be replaced every 75-100k miles to prevent a more costly overheating, but the parts to replace the entire system can be purchased for $450 or less and can be installed even by inexperienced DIY'ers. It's a very easy job.

The other issues listed are just common wear items which get tired on any car with over 100k miles. Is it unreasonable to have to replace control arm and and trailing arm bushings on a 16+ year old car? I don't think so... The beauty of the E36 in particular is that parts are cheap, readily available, and the chassis is extremely easy to work on. People who say otherwise do not have direct experience with the E36. If you can do the work yourself, you will save tons of money. If you can't work on it yourself, most jobs don't take very long due to the simple layout and general accessibility of most maintenance items, so you won't pay a lot for labor fees.

I bought a '98 328is five years ago with 95k miles on it. It is my first experience with an older German car, and it has be fantastically reliable. I replaced all the wear items when I acquired it, and the only problem I've had with it in 26k miles of driving is that a fuel injector went bad, which is a $60 part and takes 10 minutes to replace. It gets autocrossed and tracked, and it never skips a beat. Oil analysis from Blackstone Labs shows the engine to be in excellent heath.

Unfortunately, because the E36 is so affordable right now, many (most?) of them are being bought by youngsters who hack them to pieces and create a total nightmare for future owners.

Steve in Manhattan > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 13:17

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My brother-in-law has a 7 series and a 1 series. Now that's strange sampling.

ZeGerman > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/07/2015 at 13:21

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Once sorted, the E36 is extremely reliable and easy to maintain.

fintail > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 13:25

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I wonder if part of the problem with x45 cars is that they have issue, like the several I have seen in my area blowing smoke in a way that would make my fintail blush.

Varinn > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 13:26

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Good article with lots of true comparisons. I'm a big BMW fan but you definitely need to be prepared to invest to keep them nice. It holds true for lots of the models, old or new. I wanted a newer car to drive while I worked on the e30 and settled on a Z4M coupe as being what I hope to be somewhat reliable (considering what it is). "Minimal" electronics, DIY friendly, the mechanical driveline is fairly solid so far. It's not a cheap car to own/maintain but it hasn't had hit me with any surprises yet. Brakes are expensive, routine services are expensive, tires, etc. If not for being a mechanic myself and having friends at dealerships and indy BMW shops to help source parts/specialty tools I could not justify the ownership of it.

Some of the more loaded models are just unreal to maintain with the multi thousand dollar sunroof replacements to fix leaks, computers crapping out, $1000 battery cables melting, grenading coolant systems, electric water pumps, turbo failures, and good old fashion oil leaks. My friend just moved from an indy to a dealership and has seen 3 x5's in the last 2 months come in for engine rebuilds with sub 50'000KM's after the rings went.

If I ever tire of the Z4M and decide to move on I'll likely be going to a simple Japanese sports car or SUV, but some of the new fords are fantastic looking as well.(Focus RS? GT350?! awesome!)

DiamondDave > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 13:28

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Article is spot on. My wife had a 2000 323i that, at 70,000 miles started falling apart, requiring increasingly expensive repairs. Finally unloaded it for a Lexus.

ThePro > WhiskeyGolf 02/07/2015 at 13:29

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Where is that at? I heard that in Germany, the famously unreliable cars (VWs, Audis, BMWs, etc) don't actually have any problems. Either they give you the reliable ones or the service department puts the secret "reliability fluid" in it.

rayJoyal > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 13:34

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I wanted a 2009 335xi for a winter car.

I test drove one. Really nice. Then I started looking into the common problems and shat myself. I tried looking up parts (I'm DIYer) and shat myself some more.

I ended up buying another Subaru.

Why? Learning curve - my 08 Outback XT looks almost the same under the hood as my 02 Legacy. Parts for Subarus are a bit expensive but not BMW expensive.

But I still find myself looking at various flavors of 3 series and will probably get sucked into buying one one day. (Also, I'm a car whore.)

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/07/2015 at 13:38

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That's what I've noticed so far. No harder to work on than my Safari, at least for now..

Bond...Adrian Bond > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 13:39

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Yup, perceived lack of quality and downright cheapness steered me in the direction of AMG instead of BMW, and I am glad with my decision.

CammedCTSV > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 13:41

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I had to choose between a 2004 M3 And a 2004 CTS-V and I think I made a wise choice

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/07/2015 at 13:48

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It'll probably be easier.

rtaylor76 > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 13:50

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Interesting story and interesting research. It seems that good engineering pays off. However, there was no mention of repair costs once a repair is needed and common castistrophic failures, like head gasket/head machining repair, turbo repair/replacement, engine replacement, transmission replacement, etc. Not to mention that all local mechanics will work on BMW's or any German cars for that matter. One place I went to would not even change the oil on my 2003 VW Passat.

The other issues are just general mainteance cost twice as much as most other cars most would consider boring (Civics, Camrys, etc.). Even a water pump failure or radiator failure can cost quite a bit more. This is mostly due to the increase in labor costs as mentioned above, as well as parts costs, and likely increased labor time due to designs that did not build in serviceability as well as other desings. BMW and others feel that a qualified engineer will be able to work around the superior design of engine and other parts. This is also one of the reasons why a new sale of a BMW comes with the service plan included. They put perfomance over serviceablity, and as long as you are okay with that, then that is fine.

I am in the camp that cars, engines, and other mechanical parts are most always needing to be serviced and does not need to make it cost prohibitive to perform certain repairs. And also the parts they put on are not quite as up to the level of perfomance of the other parts surrounding it.

TLDR - It will still likely need repairs, and those repairs will be more costly than same repair on other more common vehicles.

bassracerx > Steve in Manhattan 02/07/2015 at 14:03

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i can see that. personally i love very small cars and very large cars. mid size cars to me feel like they are allways compromising in one aspect or another.

rudyH > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 14:04

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To BMW I say....never again. One of the links actually made me laugh when it mentioned "diligent maintenance" being required on 3 Series window regulators. I am notorious for neglecting my window regulators.

guppysb > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 14:07

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I tell everyone why I leased a new 428i instead of financing it:

1. It's a BMW, really bad in maintenance and mechanical failures over time.

2. It's a first edition car, I am basically the beta test.

3. It's not a Porsche. Porsches have been known to be premium luxury but also reliable. Sure, the 996 had issues, but generally speaking, Porsche is known to last.

duurtlang > ThePro 02/07/2015 at 14:08

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They do have problems in Germany and are more expensive to maintain as well. The difference just isn't as big.

2tonic > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 14:09

0

I'm wary of any car with lots of complex electronic and other options. My car is fairly Jalop:

128i, NA N52 motor, 6-speed Getrag, Sport Package, Cold Weather Package, Sunroof, and delicious vinyl seats and crappy base radio. BTW, I never listen to the radio - the motor is my music.

I'll pay the usual BMW high prices for brakes/rotors, oil changes, etc., and scheduled maintenance,but I'll never have to worry about:

Nav system/iDrive, adaptive and/or LED/Xenon headlights, blind spot detection, lane guidance, massaging seats, power trunk, head up display, side and top view cameras, soft close doors, active steering, parking assist, active stop and go, or night vision.

The Stig's Rustbelt Cousin > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 14:10

6

This article is absolutely correct, and as a former BMW service advisor, I concur that if you purchase a used BMW, avoid the later models that are unnecessarily complex, but regardless of what you buy, plan to spend more money on than you would on a Japanese car. Most BMWs have a 15,000 mile oil service interval, but when it goes in for that annual service, the technicians will probably spot anywhere from $1000-$2000 in other repairs and maintenance that needs to be done. Then there are the unscheduled trips, for anything from overheating to tail light wiring that melts. If one of your xenon lights fails, it could cost over $1000 in parts, because there's a good chance that it's going to need more than just a bulb.

BMWs are nice cars, and generally nicer to drive than most other cars, but under no circumstances can they be considered reliable. If you buy a used one, be prepared to spend a few grand extra on maintenance, annually.

bassracerx > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 14:12

0

articles like this really makes me contemplate how domestic trucks/suvs have become the modern luxury vehicle of choice and how their market share in the luxury segment is growing and growing. So many people are sick of losing all that cash on the German vehicles and possibly switching to trucks instead.

PowerFlower > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 02/07/2015 at 14:18

0

I went from a Miata to a Boxster and then a Boxster, and on all of them the roof had to be fixed. Of course, on the Miata, that was after 17 years (!) and $800 got me a nice new one. On the Boxsters, it's the two engine/gear/pushrods, over $2000 each time... I don't need a power roof. Or a power anything. Just a powertrain.

anastos > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 02/07/2015 at 14:19

6

You will never experience the joy of a failed hydraulic pump in your automatic top, a true part of the Z4 ownership experience. I shed a tear for you.

Equana > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 14:21

0

Never use the word "invest" and used cars together.

Invest is a word used to describe an acquisition that MAY increase in value over your ownership. A house, a stock, a bond, a New In Package Spock doll or a classic car.

Used BMW's MAY be a Big Massive Waste of money, but they aren't investments!

Tremec, + 1 Yugo (aka the Blugo) > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 14:22

4

Excellent article. After working at a BMW dealer for quite a few years in the aughts, I can tell you that your assessment is spot on.

Mechanically, BMWs are (mostly) great. The inline sixes are the stuff of legends, suspension components are durable, and transmissions are probably above average. They've had a few faux pas, such as HPFP's on the early turbos, engine blocks on the V8 in the E32 and E34, and some VANOS things. But mechanically, most are sound.

The two biggest culprits are electronics and trim issues. As you mentioned, the electronics are notorious for being very temperamental, and the typical electronic modules are ridiculously expensive to replace.

Also, with trim items, certain components on certain models are prone to failure, mostly due to a liberal use of plastics: window regulators, interior bits, outer window channel trim, etc. Furthermore, there's plastic used where you wouldn't expect it to be, like in coolant reservoirs tied into the radiator (NOT overflow bottles).

Honorable mention goes to the interior window trim in E46 coupes. Those would frequently last approximately one Texas summer before giving up and taking the plunge.

SuperDuperETA > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 14:26

0

I was able to replace my beater e30 with an 08 e90 328i last year. So far I have driven it across the United States and besides some crappy plastic part issues (window regulator, exterior trim, aux jack) it has been great. Repairs and maintenance costs are not a problem if you do them yourself.

drivingmsdaisycrazy > JasonStern911 02/07/2015 at 14:27

3

I have a Z4 coupe, and the reliability has been really good. It's always been an Arizona car, is 9 years old and has 86k on the clock, so I know that I'll have to replace all the rubber in it sooner or later. But as long as I keep up with the scheduled and preventive maintenance, it treats me right.

ETA: I don't take it to a dealership, but my mechanic is a former BMW master mechanic, and knows the car really well.

manticore33 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 02/07/2015 at 14:34

0

I would not worry about it as a driver of a 251k mile M54B30 in an e39. We took it on a 1,500/mi road trip to the beach without much worry.

BigJim > E92M3 02/07/2015 at 14:37

4

I have an 87 325is. And i totally agree, most of the parts on it are alright but anything thats rubber or plastic or even not as good metal, just disintegrates. Like all the tranny bushings and even the front jack points broke up through the floor.

LUV2SPD > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 14:37

0

I like these articles a lot, makes it easier to buy a 2nd hand luxury car in a few years time. I bought a '06 C55 two years ago and apart from a replaced crank position sensor $540 (which was kind of my fault, driving like I stole it) it has been bullett proof.

Whitesmoke > Rob 02/07/2015 at 14:39

3

Funny, back in the sixties the BMW 1600s were known as BMTroubleYous. But I'd still take one in a skinny minute and suck it on maintenance costs.

manticore33 > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 14:48

0

A think a lot of people miss the market differences between European cars about what is "quality and reliability." Feel and perception in the European market matters more than actual performance. Also, we neglect that BMW builds basic stripper models (like Mercedes) for the rest of the world which do not as many luxury complications. A 5-series and E-class are akin to Crown Vics for the rest of the world (complete with police and taxi service.)

BMW is not an appliance machine, which is why one buys a BMW over an appliance machine. The plastics issue is quite annoying; however, I thought that was due to EU regulations that required vehicles to be recyclable, not manufactures' choice.

What speaks quality of a BMW, and some reliability, is when I get into my 251k e39 (manual of course) hear no squeeks or rattles, have no cracks in the dash, all electric functions work, terrific AC, no engine lights, and no holes in the leather. This speaks quality to me. And, in 4 years over 80k/miles of ownership my maintenance costs have been less than $2.5k including tires. Aftermarket parts can be absolute junk for European cars which can perpetuate the problems/issues.

Evergreener > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 14:50

0

Just stay away from the Turbo models and keep up with the routine maintenance.

ipooponyou > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 14:55

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BMWs are cars you lease not buy,

They are great cars but after 60,000 miles they fall apart.

And hell for all card brands the more electronics you shove in them the more they fail. these cars that are comming out today, where the computer controls the throttle, the brakes, the steering, the ICE system, the heating hell even the seats, the majority of these things wont last past 10 years.

Hell my E30 had so many warning lights on them it looked like a christmas tree, my solution was to disable the warning lights. Brake light warning? the brake lights worked fine just due to the wires int he car being 20 years old at the time the resistance changed so it tripped the warning lights.

My E36 M3 was the same but luckily the display pixels died so those annoying warnings stoped showing.

My Families Saab 900T same thing those pixels died.

Yet as annoying as it is nothing ran poorly longer than a 80s-90s GM v6

all cars have their faults, my next car im looking at this fall will be a focus RS or a WRX.

I almost considered a GTI but everyone i know who owns a modern VW has the same troubles a 7 series gives you, also i hate the new way VW expects you to buy a car, which is FUCK YOU BUY OUR FLOORMATs for 800 dollars take it or leave it. pretty much their website prevents you from knowing what the options cost

YouCanJustifyAnything > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 15:02

0

I've had service cashier's tell me "Well thats's the cost of owning the ultimate driving machine".

You don't buy BMW's to show how smart you are, you buy them to show you can afford it.

That's why the older BMW's get, the easier they are to pickup - like dog shit.

caddyak > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 15:02

6

Agreed. It's the little things that go wrong on BMWs, never the engine. I've replaced every single window and lock regulator on my '01 M5. But with 140k miles, the drivetrain has never even given my so much as a hiccup.

I would drive it to California and back today if I had to. But I always have a nagging fear every time I roll down my window at a drive through.

gearboxtrouble > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 15:05

0

This is spot on analysis. In my long experience of owning BMWs I can attest to rock solid mechanicals but iffy electricals and electronics. There are obviously exceptions to that rule (eg early S54 engine rod bearings, N54 engine HPFP) but on the whole, the engines are very reliable if taken care of. Every major problem I've had (e46 m3 stereo, e92 m3 dct) has been electrical/software related. The amount of computer control in my current f82 M4 makes me concerned for its long term reliability too though BMW appear to be learning by making some of the systems less complex (eg DCT).

manticore33 > manticore33 02/07/2015 at 15:08

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Also, as a continuation, people have a perception that more expensive always means more reliable. That is typically not the case. More expensive is a result of paying more for some more unique than average. This applies to most goods one will purchase (electronics, clothing & shoes, housing, and etc.)

The entire world is a world of compromises. I am not so sure why people fail to realize this with cars.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > anastos 02/07/2015 at 15:14

2

But this is the exact reason I got a 3.0si without the power top. I didn't feel like pulling the top after the hydraulic pump goes just to be able to use it. :)

Chris98499 > Tipo Stradale Fever 02/07/2015 at 15:14

0

In all fairness that car has close to 120k on the clock!! Of course its gonna be cheap. My 09' had 39k on the clock when I bought it and I paid more than $25,000.

ThatbastardKurtis > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 15:15

0

I was recently at a dealership, and I happened to see a BMW a e90 335i (pre-LCI) that had just been bought by a young man who I was told came all the way from New Jersey to buy the vehicle. My automotive prayers are with that young man, as the e90 335i was known for its HPFP issues.

Parth985 > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 15:19

0

I have a e39 m5 cost more than to maintain in last two years than it was worth lol a proper money pit

Jim Drivas > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 15:22

1

I'm at the other end of the spectrum with my 2009 E92 M3. I special ordered my Space gray M3 with every option including the power rear shade back in September, 2008. The car listed for about $76K...I paid $72. Took delivery on November 7, 2008 and now after 6+ years the car has 7100 miles. Pristine in every way...floor mats on top of floormats; covers on the seats; clear bra covering the entire front end and rocker panels...all wear items are totally protected. The car is waxed monthly and totally ding/chip free. I've tracked it twice but now don't chance it on the track anymore for fear it might get hurt. The car has never seen rain and the underside is even polished. I live in rainy Oregon, so hence the low miles. Every time it's driven, I spend hours cleaning the car even if for only 10 miles. A battery tender is on the car after every drive. All my maintenance records are computerized, right down to recording every time I've driven it...date, miles, where the car went. I'm way past OCD. In fact people say I'm CDO, which is OCD in alphabetical order...the way it should be.

So what do I have? I have basically a brand new E92 M3 maybe worth $40K with 7100 miles. If I sell the car could I find a better car than this M3 for $40K...I doubt it. So here I sit, listening to car in the garage depreciating (kind of a low groan) and wondering what to do. I'm trapped in a beautiful M3. Things could be worse. My plans now are to keep the car for 10 years or until the next generation of M3/M4 appears beyond the F80 series and then sell it. I must say that I do enjoy buffing and detailing the car. I'm retired and love to putter about working on older cars and detailing new cars. The M3 was never intended to be a DD as I have another car and pickup truck for the rainy days. Nothing has ever broken on the car (duh...7K miles) and maintenance is cheap since it only gets driven a few times per month. Oil changes are my biggest expense with 10W-60 snake oil costing about $15/liter (car holds about 9 liters).

The car is exercised but always warmed up gently. I always plan to drive it at least 5 to 10 miles minimum to fully warm up the engine. It still puts a huge smile on my face every time I drive it. No, it's currently not for sale and yes, I'm totally obsessive compulsive.

kraenk12 > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 15:27

1

Europeans will never understand why Americans stick to their fairytales of unreliable german cars...Is it propaganda pushed by the American car industry?! German cars are among the most reliable in the world, especially long term.

Snooder87 > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 15:28

3

So what you're saying is, Lease?

Sterling Malory Archer > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 15:31

0

Good article, but like almost anything mechanical you need to keep up with the preventive maintenance. I am the original owner of a 1997 E36 M3 Coupe with 210,000 miles. It looks new as I have done all the maintenance on it myself except a new clutch at 180k. No I am not a mechanic. Just bought the Bentley manual and followed the Bravarian Autoworks maintenance schedule ( https://www.bavauto.com/Assets/inst_pa… ). Will probably drive it until it completely falls apart, which at this rate might be very long time from now.

Steven Lang > LJ909 02/07/2015 at 15:34

4

In a word, yes.

ColdSlaw > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 15:39

1

This data set is amazing. What I'm wondering is, for the trade-in mileage data, is there anyway to adjust for owner effects associated with certain makes. For example, the trade-in stats about Volvos might say as much about Volvo owners as it does the cars themselves. IIHS does age adjustments on its death data to try to account for these driver effects, such as it's mostly young risk taking men who buy Nissan 370 Z's. Are you doing any tests for statistical significance? Anyway, keep up these great posts. As a car guy and stats guy I really dig this.

ottofox89 > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 15:39

1

This one the Main reasons ive been happy with my 25, now 26 year old e34 535i. the M30 engine was one of the upmost reliable engines ever created by them. parts are fairly cheaper. and at 191,000 miles its proved its reliability with simply replacing a radiator-past owner- and replacing a coolant hose. it needs some things here and there. but i wont touch a newer bmw with all the electric crap now implemented into the cars.( u have to PROGRAM THE NEW BATTERY WHEN REPLACED?!!) hell this car has over 50% less issues than my 98 328i-that died- and i couldnt be happier with my older german saloon.

Steven Lang > Snooder87 02/07/2015 at 15:39

4

Nope. If you want a BMW, chances are the one with the fewest electronic gadgets and manual controls will make you the happiest.

And yes, that includes the transmission.

Steven Lang > ottofox89 02/07/2015 at 15:41

1

One of my uncles had that model back in the day. It looked like a virtual spaceship compared with the 80's Lincolns and Buicks that were at the same get together.

I always loved the shade of blue in that generation as well.

lithiumbomb > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 15:51

0

I wonder, with the exception of some models in its history, if this has largely been the case with BMWs for most of the past 50 years. I've been into E3s for a long time. The models that survived into the late 80s had generally had _huge_ packets of repair receipts (the previous owner of my '74 had spent about 13 grand on repairs by 1989, including an engine). The heads would crack due to overheating, the emissions control systems would fail, the carburetors would warp. By the 80s, with later casting cylinder heads (or new engines), upgraded cooling systems, new carbs, and removal of the emissions control gear, most of their issues were sorted. After that, they were bullet proof cars that could go well into the 200k-300k mile range.

Mark > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 15:55

0

I just wrapped up my 9 year ownership experience with a 2003 BMW 325xiT. I purchased the car as a lease return and during my first week with it, the check engine light came on and then went off. The check engine light was a constant companion during those 9 years and resulted in the following repairs:

Thermostat and O2 sensor at 50,000 miles.

Vanos Seals at 60,000 miles

Secondary Airpump at 70,000 miles

Then the cooling system components had to replaced twice during my ownership. Waterpump, the thermostat again (started leaking) and the expansion tank (preemptive). Window regulators started to fail...I just left the passenger window up and the sunroof wouldn't open. And rear coil springs....all are commong E46 failures.

Also needed swaybar end links, bushings, both control arms and front cv axles at 100K miles. What put me over the edge was having the alternator and starter fail during the same month. It was solid though, no rust and a robust paint, body and interior trimmings. And I could cruise on the highway and get 30 plus mpg and had no issues getting through the snow...but compared to the Honda and Acura I owned along with this car, it was a high maintenance hangar queen...that was a delight to drive. The last straw was the check engine light illuminating this winter...secondary air injection system fault that would resolve when the weather got warmer...after 9 years....and deciding if I wanted to continue maintaining a 12 year old BMW...I said goodbye....and am a little sad to see it go. Just wish it didn't break so much and my mechanic said mine was one of the more reliable ones.

Snooder87 > Steven Lang 02/07/2015 at 16:00

3

So clearly if I want to buy car with an electronic ball warmer and wine chiller I should buy mercedes?